Tomaselli, Dante (Satan”s Playground)
There are a few indie filmmakers out there that, no matter what others might say about them both positive and negative, always have a smile and few kind words for us critics. Among them, Dante Tomaselli is definitely the friendliest, always taking the time for interviews with pretty much anyone that asks him for one, because he knows what it’s like to be a fan. \r\n
One of our newest contributors, Adam Barnick, recently sat down with Dante to discuss his latest film, Satan’s Playground, in excruciatingly precise detail, and has come up with some great info in the process. I should warn you, there are slight spoilers within, so tread carefully.
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Adam Barnick: You”ve said your stories often start with one image and you build around it. Where did Satan”s Playground start from?
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Dante Tomaselli: Evil, cursed woods. And someone running from those woods.
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AB: After two hallucinatory, non-linear films did you just decide “This one has to be more accessible” or was it just a story you wanted to tell that happened to be this way?
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DT: It was time, artistically and commercially; it just felt the right route to go. Satan”s Playground is still very dreamlike. But it”s a simple to follow, stripped-down macabre fairy-tale as opposed to a puzzle movie. It”s made for horror fans to have fun and enjoy. You can jump into a nightmare world and not feel as perplexed as my other films. But it”s not spoon fed; it”s all very subliminal. What it has in common with my other pictures is that it has an aura of mystery and delirium. It”s weird and offbeat. Satan”s Playground is painterly. I think it”s my most polished film. Drink a glass of wine and enjoy. In screenings so far, people seem to have a blast, laughing and cringing and jumping. It”s a wild horror film ride…
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AB: We often hear about kinds of horror, like films or belief systems that state all evil lies within,(only in human nature), and then there”s stories where the true evil is “out there.” Could be an external manipulating force, or an element, other beings etc. We see this all the time in movies but it”s usually one or the other.
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DT: With my first two films, the horror was definitely internal, it all came from within. With Satan”s Playground, the horror is both external and internal, it”s inside them, it”s outside them. It”s all around them. Even though we have an earthbound situation, a vacationing family stuck in the woods…the film”s overall feel is otherworldly, misty, hallucinogenic. Satan”s Playground speaks in dream language. In one scene, Ellen (Sandweiss)”s character, Paula, talks about how she has a condition called sleep paralysis and describes a paranoia about losing her newborn baby. As the entire family travels deeper into the woods, they realize that something out there is calling them. And what”s calling them is death. They”re trapped in a vortex, some kind of hell on earth.
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AB: Here in Satan”s Playground, we have both; twisted men and women and another force in the woods causing havoc. You could have come up with a story for SP concentrating on either one. Do you have a specific belief about where evil comes from, or do you have a particular avenue of this you prefer to explore in your movies?
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DT: I believe evil comes from within, for the most part. But there are some instances where it can be an external force too, definitely. I believe in malevolent alien beings. I want to explore all angles of the supernatural on film. I believe in the power of repression, supernatural nightmares. What you keep locked, hidden inside, comes popping back up. I believe in spells. I believe in reincarnation.
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AB: Have you always had an interest in the Leeds family/Jersey Devil legend? As opposed to setting it in Anywhere, USA?
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DT: Oh yeah, the legend scared me to death growing up, especially when I”d spend my summers at the Jersey shore. The winged Devil was supposed to be lurking around Smithville, those Southern Jersey woods. I believed in the existence of monsters and the Jersey Devil was one of them.
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AB: Jack Swain executive produced your first two films, and for your third you had a larger budget, and a new team of producers in Millie and Milka Stanisic. How did this come about, had they had an interest in producing since before Horror?
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DT: Jack was going to finance Satan”s Playground but wanted to wait a little while. I didn”t want to wait. Milka Stanisic, who was the Production Supervisor on Horror, told me that she was about to start her own production company with her sister, Millie, called Em & Me Productions. We had a meeting at the SoHo House in NYC and it was solidified that they were going to take on Satan”s Playground as their first project.
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AB: How did they approach raising the funds? Did setting this film up take a long time?
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DT: They wrangled the investors from different parts of the world, Hong Kong, England, etc. That”s all I know. I kept out of all of that and focused totally on the creative aspects, mounting the movie. But, no…it didn”t take a long time, just a few months really. It all happened fairly quickly.
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AB: Being that family dynamics, albeit twisted ones, dominate your work did you always plan to pit one problematic family against another? After the initial inspiring image of the haunted woods and someone running from them, did it take a long time to develop the story to where it stands now?
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DT: Right after that first visual was etched in my mind, the idea of family dysfunction taken to its extreme fell into place naturally. I guess because that”s just an issue that keeps popping up in my work…and I”m a very stream-of-consciousness filmmaker. I mean, Desecration, Horror and Satan”s Playground all have pretty depraved families. Somewhere among it all, in my films, there”s goodness, some kind of true innocence. But satanic evil usually obliterates everything.
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AB: Where did you discover that old spooky house for Satan”s Playground?
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DT: That”s actually some kind of historic monument. The New Jersey Film Commission hooked me up with Robert Zappalorti, an authority on the Pine Barrens region. I told him what I was going for and he lead me to this very ethereal section of the Pine Barrens called Whitesbog. It”s a desolate but beautiful area where the legend of the Jersey Devil is a very real thing for its residents. Some little girl who lived nearby would tell me strange tales about the creature. And those woods…they were so disturbing and menacing at night; it was always pitch black…except for the moon glowing. Every now and then you”d hear a gun being shot because there were hunters out there and God knows what else. The trees had such a unique texture too. You could never replicate the Jersey Pine Barrens; there”s a certain look that can”t be xeroxed. It”s ultra real but artificial at the same time. Think Little Red Riding Hood or Hansel & Gretel, those kinds of woods. Something you”d see illustrated in a child”s story book, but with an aura of danger.
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AB: How much or what kind of work did you production designer/art director need to do to get that house into the shape it was in?
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DT: J.T Camp as Production Designer and Pete Zumba as Art Director were really, really terrific. They spent endless hours decorating the exterior and interior of that old house. They constructed a lot too. For example the hallucinatory hallway in the film that leads to the back room where characters are killed, that was created completely from scratch, by this art team. The room itself, which we all called, “The Butcher Room,” was built from scratch too. Just like I wanted, it gives you the feeling of a weird satanic church, an otherworldly death room. They worked incredibly long hours, slaving away in the extreme cold, with lots of pressure, time always ticking…J.T. and Pete were relentless and totally in sync with me. I usually attract a very competent art team, for the low budgets I work on, but these guys were the best ever.
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AB: Did you develop a backstory for Mrs. Leeds that was similar to what legends are in print?
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DT: Well, the thing about the Jersey Devil Legend is that there are so many versions. There”s no one correct version. But I went with the most widely known notion that there was this woman named Mrs. Leeds in the 1700”s who lived in the Pine Barrens and had a mysteriously deformed thirteenth child. I used creative license portraying the Jersey Devil as an unseen force. I made it bloodthirsty; at any given moment, you never know where it is, so it can claw at your throat…To me, that seemed more unnerving than a man in a suit or a mechanical beast. I”m more interested in being suggestive; it creates a feeling of paranoia that you can”t put your finger on. Plus, let”s face it, I didn”t have a Hollywood-sized budget and I was not going to employ any silly CGI effects. Irma St. Paule as Mrs. Leeds was concerned about it too. She said, “what”s my son going to look like?” When I said, “he”ll be invisible,” she just gave me a big smile.
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AB: Was she always intended to be somewhat shapeshifting in her attitudes? Underneath it all, she”s consistently cruel, but she”s a lot of fun in the film- one scene her mind is gone..another scene, she”s cunning…another scene, she”s funny. Can you talk about the development of her character with Irma St. Paule?
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DT: Yes, she was a bit unpredictable, wasn”t she? (laughs). Well, I wrote the role with her in mind, because I always knew she was going to play it. We”ve been working together since my first feature, Desecration, and I was going for delirium…unhinged lunacy here. I told Irma I wanted her to play Mrs. Leeds like an evil snake, cunning, slowly courting its victims. You never want to get her mad, oh God no (laughs). Her role is a metaphor for the film, she”s black-hearted, like a razor-blade candy apple…sugary and nice on top, but with a sadistic, deadly core.
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AB: Can you tell me a bit about Ellen Sandweiss” involvement? How trippy is it to have several childhood idols on your film set?
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DT: Oh what a thrill, really. I had a poster of her all bloody and possessed hanging over my bed in 1983, when I was thirteen years old. You know the image, where”s she”s breaking out of the cellar in The Evil Dead. To have her in my own horror movie all these later is just beyond belief! I feel exactly the same way about Felissa Rose and Edwin Neal, 100% honored.
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AB: How do you approach working with an actor when they need to spend the majority of a film in a state of heightened emotions/all-out fear? Does this tend to put you or your crew on edge or make them uncomfortable?
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DT: It”s like a giant S&M session played out in front of many people. I try to be very supportive with my actors; I pamper them. The crew gets into it, too. It”s like a large scale support system. There”s got to be electricity; people have to be loyal and passionate about being there on set or it won”t work. The stakes are too high and the budget is too low. When we”re filming it”s like being part of a cult and I”m Dracula. I”m a quiet director. I”m a shy person. I don”t believe in screaming at actors. There”s so much horror happening onscreen, why create more tension? Plus – I”m honored that everyone is even there; I feel fortunate. At the same, though, I am quietly using psychological tactics, to get better quality work from my crew and cast. Whatever works. \r\n
As director, I have to say things that will push buttons in my actors to bring them to that place where they need to be. Usually I”ll whisper something in their ear before a take. I”ve heard about directors slapping actors. I”d never do that. But emotionally I would — and I do. It does feel like a strange, subversive S&M session sometimes for sure. Lots of crying. But we”re in it together. I wanted Felissa and Ellen to be raw…emotionally naked during the filming of Satan”s Playground. That”s why they had to feel safe. It was important to everyone that they were safe. It really does sound like S&M, doesn”t it?
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AB: As a successful director who often works under extreme time constraints and harsher conditions (woods in the winter, etc.) how have you worked with your crews to keep them inspired and focused through these productions? Is it all a matter of hiring teams that get you and work in sync?
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DT: Energetically – we all have to be on the same page. It”s a state of mind. I choose my crews very very carefully. My job is to be the lightening rod and I do this by bonding with each key crew member in some way, any kind of way, playing music from the film, showing storyboards, going over the script, making them feel part of the family. I want their input. I want everyone to be happy and well-fed. At the same time each key crew member should know that I expect excellence, and if that magic doesn”t happen there is always someone else waiting in the wings. I”m sorry but it”s true. That”s show-biz. I like to keep a light, upbeat set, but if someone is not working out, I have no reservations about severing ties. I”m cold in that way. The film takes precedence over everything.
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AB: How was working with Ed Neal? Did he bring a lot to his portrayal of “boy” or did you always imagine him as somewhat feral and a big, dumb kid? I bet Christie Sanford enjoyed her doll-like character.
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DT: It was a lot of fun working with Ed Neal. He brought a frantic energy to his character. When we formally met, I was in my motel room, getting ready to shoot. He came in and we talked for about an hour straight on the subject of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, one of my favorite movies of all time. I could tell immediately he was articulate, complex…and totally bizarre. We bonded. Ed came up with the idea that his character had this constant itch, like a tic, and when you see him on screen it”s very subtle, but it looks like he”s always about to scratch his face. And he”s got these huge, claw-like hands. Freaky! Christie Sanford was a pleasure to work with, as usual. She”s been in all my films since I was 23 years-old. Christie”s sadistic in her role as Judy, the mute daughter of Mrs. Leeds. Her demented witch-like cackle was constantly heard around the set. Off screen, she”s the nicest lady you”d ever want to meet.
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AB: I assume you, Felissa, and the others have developed a bit of director/actor shorthand by now on set. After her Horror cameo, it must have worked quite well to have Felissa on set each day.
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DT: Oh yeah. Felissa is fearless in this role. She dives right into Donna and never comes out. I never witnessed such a total transformation in my life. Aside from her artistic abilities, she”s a totally warm, sweet, caring person. But don”t ever cross the line and screw with her…at the core, she”s a hot-blooded Italian who can explode…but only when provoked. Only! It takes a lot to provoke her — but I”ve seen it happen. World watch out! She”s a ferociously passionate woman. A force of nature. I can”t wait to work with her again on my next feature.
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AB: Was casting Ron Millkie always intended from the start? He”s an interesting take on the manly/ignorant cop in most old-school horror films. Though the police in general in this film don”t seem too well-equipped to deal with what they find.
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DT: Well, Ron Millkie saw a casting notice for Satan”s Playground and sent me his headshot asking to audition for the role of the cop. When I saw that Friday the 13th was on his credits, I quickly called him and we met. I knew he was what I was going for and I loved the Friday the 13th connection. He was so funny in that film. Once on set, Ron was completely malleable, easy to work with. And yeah, I purposely portrayed the cops as disposable and bumbling. So often in real life they are. The “law” is a fragile concept in Satan”s Playground.
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AB: I was surprised to find that Satan”s Playground has some, just a few, moments of humor, albeit pitch-black humor. What made you decide, and when, that this film would be a bit less solemn that the one before it? There”s an interesting juxtaposition in two or three scenes where something terrifying happens followed by something hilarious..in a sick way of course.
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DT: I think that just came out naturally. There”s a fine line between humor and horror. When I was writing the script, I knew certain parts would come across as funny. But I also knew that many other sections of the film were dead serious. The thing is, you never really know what works until you watch it with an audience. Satan”s Playground was always going to be my attempt at making a fun horror movie, a popcorn horror movie. So far, from what I”ve seen at screenings, and the reviews, it seems to be working out that way. Fingers crossed.
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AB: You”ve mentioned reincarnation; Since you cast certain actors over the course of several films, I get the impressions that these are the same people in different bodies. Like you said, Luck is another side of Bobby in this film, Danny (Lopes) is Sean. Sean was a character in Desecration who was swallowed by the Earth. Bobby (Desecration) was a victim from the start, a bit passive and easily overwhelmed. Luck (from Horror) was violent and all out for himself, even though he could have had some sort of salvation if he had looked past that. As penalty, he comes back as Sean, developmentally disabled and obsessed with his mother!
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DT: Yes, I”m glad you brought that up. Even Mrs. Leeds is Grandma Matilda from Desecration in some life time. Through my films, I would really like to create one universe — never-ending, where there are the same lifeforms repeating, looping, through Satan”s will, constantly morphing and overlapping. I think I”m trying to create some kind of limbo. These characters are stuck, trapped in time. They”re damned.
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AB: You”ve talked about loops and cycles repeating in your films, a cycle of damnation. Do you realize by putting Ellen Sandweiss in the woods once again being terrorized, you”ve created your own loop outside your films?
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DT: Ha! I know what you mean. Having Ellen Sandweiss running through the woods in terror in my very own film was a euphoric experience for me (laughs). It was like some kind of a time/space dislocation, which is usually what my movies try to illustrate anyway.
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AB: The music”s really something in Playground. How much is yours vs. Kenneth Lampls? Do you have a background in music, or is it instinctual like the writing of the story for you? You could really be scoring other flicks after this one. And speaking of that what”s up with your album you”ve mentioned?
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DT: Thanks! Well, Kenneth composed the orchestral music, like the opening theme and other key musical compositions. Some of it was done before the film was even shot. For example, the opening theme was created by Lampl in 1997. I decided the piece would be perfect as the theme. Also, the haunting, demented lullaby…Kenneth made that before the movie was shot. I said, “I have to incorporate that!” \r\n
For Satan”s Playground, I composed and layered the synth sections, the brooding ambient tones, the sound effects…Personally, I wove together all the sound elements, every little nugget, including Kenneth”s gorgeous compositions and compositions by other composers. I mixed them together so they became a kind of hallucinatory swirl. I am completely obsessed with the sound design of the film. It means so much to me. I have a gigantic library of samples and a Roland Synthesizer and I like to mix soundscapes while I”m writing, shooting and editing. It”s all very experimental. Musically, I”m influenced by Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, and early John Carpenter. I do have a background in music; growing up I played trumpet, took guitar lessons…and I was always messing with a Casio electronic keyboard. But I”m really more instinctual. I just have a good ear. I plan on creating a surreal electronic album at some point called Sex, Death and the Supernatural…
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AB: Is the reason you can make these films so efficiently and at a better-than-Hollywood cost due to your doing most of the postproduction, i.e., music and sound FX, ahead of time?
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DT: I think it helps. I do know that I see and hear the film so vividly in my imagination that when it comes time to shoot and edit and sound mix, there”s never really an awkward debate. Things move along at a fast pace. Yeah, I think it probably helps that I have a crystal clear vision of the movie before it”s created. At the same time, though, I”m always open to experimentation and outside opinions, especially during production, actually mainly during production. I need a good, solid crew to make my nightmares a reality. I love working with artists. I love trying to bring out the best in them.
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AB: Chris Garetano, creator of Are You Going? magazine, the award-winning film Inside, and the new documentary “Horror Business”, is contracted to do a documentary on you. Anything you can share on that?
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DT: I met Chris at the Fangoria Weekend of Horrors Convention in January 2002. He was editor of that magazine, Are you Going? and did a piece on me. Then, a few issues later, Chris put me on the cover…with the headline THE HORROR OF DANTE TOMASELLI. The cover visual, which I have framed, was a montage of my films and it was really trippy, like spilled paint. I loved it. Chris and I both share an intense love for the macabre, for hallucinogenic horror. When we got to know each other, he reminded me of myself, when I was making my first feature, Desecration…possessed, totally relentless. Fast forward to the present, 2005, and he”ll be directing and producing a hallucinatory film/bio: THE HORROR OF DANTE TOMASELLI. I”m honored. \r\n
According to Chris, it will have clips from my earlier films and will probably culminate with behind-the-scenes footage [from my next film,] The Ocean. There will be lots of interviews with cast and crew from my films, horror critics, people around me, my strange universe. And I”ll finally open up about certain things I”ve never talked about, stuff I”ve been keeping inside. Throughout the years, since Desecration, I”ve been invited to speak on camera about the struggles and rewards of indie filmmaking, but I”ve been like a clam, afraid to open up. Chris is a really talented filmmaker and I can”t wait to see what he does with this project.
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AB: What thoughts would you give to aspiring fear-filmmakers trying to find their voice, get into the business, and prosper in it? What are some successful actions you could share?
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DT: You have to be a slave to it. And you have to try your best to demolish all those taunting voices in your head saying that you can”t do it. You can. There are so many obstacles, but it is possible. Make no mistake, though, there is MUCH pain involved. From dealing with people you despise to trying to raise the initial cash for that first feature. But you just have to be willing to walk over broken glass for it. And once you get there, wherever that place is, the voices that criticize will translate to Internet message boards, real people. Soon you have an audience watching your movies and it seems exciting and blissful but the criticism never stops and the negative voices in your head just get louder and louder. Because now the criticism is not only in your mind but it”s real. I guess you have to be a masochist to do this, to pursue this, but you”ll know, you”ll have no other choice, if it”s really for you.
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Thanks, as always, to Mr. Tomaselli for being such an accessible filmmaker, and for bringing true creative vision back to our genre after a long absence. There’s no release date for Satan’s Playground as of yet, but be sure to keep your eyes on it’s official site for an announcement.
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