Wan, James & Whannell, Leigh (Saw 2, Silence)

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Last Tuesday evening Lions Gate Entertainment threw a party at Hollywood’s famous club Blue in celebration of the release of Saw on DVD. Several cast members were on hand including stars Cary Elwes, Shawnee Smith, and of course the guests of honor, director James Wan and writer/star Leigh Whannell. Lions Gate was encouraging us to interview them that evening, but it was more of a party atmosphere and I could tell everyone just wanted to cut loose and have a good time. So we scheduled an interview for later that week.

After the dust settled on the raging Saw party the men behind the saw were able to shake off any hangovers that might be lingering long enough to sit down Friday afternoon to discuss what is in store for the future.


Sean Clark: So tell me about this new project you are working on and what exactly is the title? There have been reports that it was called Sshhh and Silence.

James Wan: It’s now called Silence but initially titled Sshhh.

SC: Is this a Lions Gate project or has it not found a home yet?

JW: I think it has a home right now; it’s at Universal at this stage.

SC: It deals with ventriloquism correct?

Leigh Whannell: Yeah it deals with ventriloquism. It’s kind of hard to talk about without giving too much away, but essentially it’s about a ghost of a master ventriloquist. It’s kind of like a horror film in the more traditional sense. There are a lot of horror films out there right now dealing with the supernatural but James and I really wanted to do something in an older style. Something that sort of harks back to Hammer Horror films, the films of Mario Bava; that real sort of House of Usher stuff. We want to do it not in a sort of campy way but in a really scary way.

SC: Did you guys look at all of the classic ventriloquist films from the Twilight Zone’s “The Dummy” and “Caesar and Me” to Devil Doll, “Dead of Night” to of course Magic?

JW: Yeah definitely Dead of Night. Dead of Night is one of my favorite films of this particular sub-genre. There really hasn’t been any film like this for a long time, and Dead of Night was really just one part of an anthology.

LW: When we started the project we did our research, and of all those films you mentioned two are short episodes of the “Twilight Zone”; Devil Doll and Magic are the only feature films dedicated to it and Magic isn’t really a horror film at all. If you asked me what genre Magic was I’d say it was psychological drama that happens to involve a ventriloquist dummy (laughs). So that leaves it down to one feature film Devil Doll and I don’t know if that was the definitive ventriloquist film (laughs).

SC: It’s a fun movie (laughs).

LW: It’s fun but the thing is, our film is about ventriloquism and not about ventriloquist dummies. This is not a killer doll film. We’re not looking to do Chucky. We’re looking to do a film which examines the art of ventriloquism and using your voice to bring life to an inanimate object, and what that in tales and sort of examine that. So that’s what the film is about.

JW: And I should probably point out that it is still in early stages, we don’t know what’s going to happen yet.

LW: It’s basically the next project. After we finished with Saw we moved on to this script.

JW: It doesn’t mean we’ll be making it (laughs). Hopefully we’ll get the chance to make it but it’s still in very early stages at this point.

SC: When Saw was first marketed Lions Gate really went for the throat with the ads showing the severed hand & foot and the trailer with the “How fucked up is that?” tagline. In contrast, the release of the DVD they censored the pictures of the severed limbs and didn’t even include those trailers on the DVD. Why are they getting soft after it obviously made so much money?

JW: (Laughs). I don’t know. It’s an interesting question. It’s sort of this little sub-section of the DVD and it’s hard to know what scenes actually lead to them airbrushing out the meat and bones sticking out or the severed limbs. I don’t know.

LW: We don’t really know.

JW: That really is the honest answer (laughs). We are on a need to know basis and we don’t need to know (both laugh).

SC: Fair enough. Lately it has become commonplace with successful films that the studio will double-dip on the DVD release and after watching the Saw DVD it’s pretty obvious that’s the case. So when will we be seeing a special editionSaw DVD loaded with extras and hopefully including your original short?

LW: I’m not sure.

JW: Do understand Sean, we are the last people to know about stuff (laughs).

LW: The short was made by James and I with our friends back in Australia. It’s the kind of thing that is a little more tricky than just whacking it on a DVD.

JW: Yeah because you have to get permissions and rights and stuff like that but believe me we, are working on it.

LW: It became the case where we could have put it on the first DVD and we did sort of try to put the short on the it but seeing that it was something that was just done with our friends back in Australia, you’ve got to make sure everything is cool with everyone. We hope an edition of Saw will come out someday that will be able to have the short on it and a few more things. I guess when they are rushing to get the DVD out they are just trying to make a release date and they just need to get a DVD out there. Especially with James and I back in Australia the time just wasn’t there to do a bunch of commentaries; have James get in there and pull out all of his artwork and get the short ready. James and I are hoping that one day we can sit down and have a big hand in an edition of Saw that contains all of that stuff.

JW: It was just primarily that we were out of the country, that’s really all it was. Our hand were not in the DVD as much as we would have liked to have.

LW: Yeah if there is another edition Lions Gate brings out we definitely want to be in there.

SC: It was a little shocking that on the DVD the making of the film was shorter than the making of the music video.

(Both laugh hysterically).

JW: Hey man, the making of the video was more interesting than the making of the film (laughs).

SC: I don’t know about that (laughs). So are we ever going to see any toys from Saw or perhaps a Jigsaw puppet?

LW: We’d love to. I guess with that sort of stuff it takes so long. Definitely we’ve talked about things like toys and stuff.

JW: It’s a hard one for us to answer because I think this is more like a Lions Gate question at this particular stage. But we would definitely let them put a toy line out there for sure.

SC: So you haven’t heard anything?

JW: We know it was an idea that was proposed a while ago by our producers and all that. I’m sure if there’s money to be made you can’t bet it is going to happen.

LW: It would be cool if McFarlane Toys could do a Movie Maniacs line. We’d love something like that. You’ve got to remember that James and I are citizens of Australia and we haven’t been living here in the states for the past three years. We’re hoping that this time we’re actually going to be here for a while longer now that Saw has come out and it’s done okay; the DVDs come out and now we’re working on other projects. We’re hoping that we can get a Visa to stay here for a while, but this sort of stuff is actually hard to instigate from way over there on the phone. It’s better if James and I could sit in a room with a toy company and go, ‘wouldn’t this be cool.’ So hopefully while we’re over here in the states, touch wood, we can start talking to different companies about stuff like video games (laughs).

SC: Oh yeah, a video game would be cool. In the commentary you mention that the puppet’s nickname was Billy. Does this have anything to do with your Black Christmas obsession James?

JW: Yes it has. There you go, that was my little homage.

SC: At the DVD release party I was telling Cary Elwes about Leigh’s amazing impersonation of him on the commentary.

JW: (Laughs) A lot of people have told Cary this (laughs).

LW: He still hasn’t seen the DVD.

SC: He was laughing about it but was really surprised by it at first. Has he never heard your impersonation?

LW: I think he’s heard it once or twice before. Maybe that’s why he left an abusive message on my phone at like three in the morning after the party (laughs). He was slurring his words so I couldn’t exactly understand what he was saying but it was like, (impersonating Cary) ‘You bastard. You’ve been impersonating me all over town. I’m gonna get you.’ So that must have been your fault.

SC: Well… sorry (laughs).

JW: Cary’s just such a cool guy, as you would known from meeting him. He’s just a great guy.

LW: You should hear his impersonation of me! Don’t worry he’ll bust that out. It sounds a little like the Crocodile Hunter but… (impersonating Cary Elwes impersonating him), “Good day, I’m Leigh Whannell.”

SC: Yeah he is a really cool guy. I also enjoyed your BBC news anchor impression as well.

LW: Thank you (laughs).

JW: I thought that this was just a really good opportunity for Leigh to do his stand up routine. He always wanted to be a comedian so I was like, “Dude, what is better than a format where everyone in the world will get to hear it?”

SC: It’s true. I was impressed.

LW: Nice, nice.

SC: So let’s talk about the sequel to Saw. Can you guys talk about any returning characters? (Pause) Well obviously actors haven’t signed on yet but are there any characters you guys are trying to bring back in the script?

JW: Okay, I can give you one.

SC: Okay.

JW: Jigsaw (laughs).

SC: You suck James.

(Both laugh hysterically).

SC: The Jigsaw character is dying of cancer in the first film so how are you going to build a franchise around some guy that’s supposed to be dying?

JW: (Laughs) I know, isn’t that funny (laughs). Look men, this is what Leigh and I have learned (laughs). Can’t you just see us going into a meeting with some Hollywood studio executive and they go, ‘What do you mean he’s dying? The film made 55 million! 55 million can cure any type of disease! Don’t you understand?!!’ (Laughs).

LW: If they can bring Ripley back for the Alien franchise by cloning her we can bring Jigsaw back (laughs).

JW: Yeah, maybe it was some voodoo thing (laughs).

LW: Yeah, he goes down to see the Haitian voodoo priest and gets rid of the cancer or wait what about this, he dies and comes back as a Freddy like figure that invades your dreams?

JW: That’s actually not a joke because back when Leigh and I were having fun and making fun of the idea of a potential sequel because I always said that if I were to direct a sequel that I would go down a supernatural path (laughs). Take it in a completely different direction but look that’s not going to be the case.

SC: So will the puppet find his way back into the sequel?

LW: The puppet is in negotiations with Lions Gate (laughs).

JW: (Laughs) You have to understand that the puppet was the biggest star of the first film (laughs).

SC: Does the puppet have an agent at this point?

LW: He does. Actually he’s was talking for months with people at CAA and ICM.

JW: Let me just say that Leigh was really jealous that the puppet got more attention than he did. (laughs).

LW: One day I got a call from CAA and this guy was like, ‘Hey this is Chad over here’, and I was so excited that finally someone has seen the movie and wants to represent me as an actor. Then he says, “Listen Leigh… I was wondering if you had a number for the puppet? Because he was great.” (Laughs). I really don’t know where he is. He really doesn’t talk to us anymore.

SC: I was wondering if you guys were even in contact anymore at this point.

LW: No.

SC: Well that’s what happens in Hollywood you know. Get used to it guys, get used to it (laughs).

LW: He’s hanging around with like Fred Durst and Pauley Shore his new big shot friends.

SC: Ah, he’s fallen into a bad crowd.

(Both laugh hysterically).

SC: You know Shawnee Smith hinted to me at the party that her character might make a return in the sequel.

LW: Ah yes.

JW: Is this your way of fishing some information out of us?

SC: James, you know that this is my job my friend (laughs).

JW: Okay, I think I will let something like this one slide. There is a very good chance that Shawnee’s character Amanda might return.

SC: Thank you (laughs).

LW: James and I always felt that the Lawrence and Adam characters definitely came to a grim end.

SC: So are you both content working in the genre right now or are you looking to branch out and do other stuff?

JW: Definitely. Leigh and I are big fans of the horror/thriller scene but we do understand that it can be very limiting to be typecast as well. If we are fortunate enough to make our next film then hopefully the next one after that is something completely different. We do have a lot of ideas that are outside of the horror/thriller genre. We are big fans of romantic comedies as well.

SC: How about you Leigh, what are you more interested in pursuing at this point acting or writing or both?

LW: I guess both. I feel that it’s a bit easier for me to get writing jobs at the moment than it is acting jobs because acting is such a much bigger playing field. You’re competing against people who put bums on seats, famous people. Where as with writing they don’t care so much. It’s not like, ‘Well we love your script but we found this other writer and he’s way more famous so we’re going to hire him instead.’ It doesn’t really work like that so I guess I’ll be forced to concentrate on writing more for the next couple of months. But I’d love to get into acting as the year goes on.

SC: So what is the working title right now for the sequel? There were some rumors going around that it was Saw 2: Hacksaw.

JW: Could you please clear that up for us; it’s not called Hacksaw.

LW: Yeah, Saw 2: Hacksaw is like an internet rumor or something I don’t know what it is.

SC: So is there any tentative or working title at this point?

LW: I think the producers at the moment are just calling it the sequel to Saw.

SC: So there is nothing at this point.

LW: Yeah it’s just to early to even think about.

SC: So are you guys still not allowed to discuss the budget of Saw?

JW: We can now. We’ve been given permission. I think when we made the film it was like 8 or 9 hundred thousand. Then Lions Gate came in at the very end, and I’m glad they did, and basically put up the rest of the money for postproduction. Look, it’s a low budget film.

SC: So what was the final budget after post and everything?

JW: I think we’re looking at about 1.1 or 1.2 million.

SC: Wow.

JW: I used to tell Leigh that straight to video films have a bigger budget than this. Made for television movies have a much bigger budget than this. Straight to video films nowadays have 3 to 4 million. It was definitely very limiting. The budget did affect the shooting speed of the film and what got shot and how quick the film was put together. We were lucky if we got to do two takes on certain days. But I don’t need to harp on that because I have already done that on the commentary.

SC: Obviously when you wrote the first one you were thinking in terms of budget and trying to make it as inexpensive as possible. Now I’m assuming you have a much bigger budget at your disposal. Have they given you any proposed budget for the sequel that you should be writing towards or is it open at this point?

JW: Have they to you Leigh?

LW: No.

JW: It’s hard to talk about budget at this stage but I definitely think it will be at least 4 or 5 times bigger than the first one. You would at least expect that.

LW: It makes business sense for them to spend more money on the sequel now that they know that it’s proven and has an audience.

JW: I guess the tricky bit here is that we have proven to the Hollywood film making world that we can make a million dollar film and make it look expensive. And a lot of people have been telling us that people are now saying, “Can’t you make a film like those guys who made Saw for one million dollars?” I guess we feel partially responsible for that so I apologize to any directors out there that just had their budgets trimmed drastically.

SC: The word is that a director has been selected but he is yet to be announced is that true?

JW: Where did you hear this?

SC: I just hear things man.

JW: (Laughs) You’ve got your ears to the floor you bastard. Who is it? Can you tell us? (Laughs) I find out all of my information from you guys, you know this.

SC: So Dread Central is your main source for horror news?

LW: When we would want to find out was going on with Saw we would go to your site and go, “Hey, cool! They’ve got a cover for the DVD!”

JW: This is serious. We’re not joking here. We found out about the Saw DVD through sites like Dread Central and Brad Miska’s Bloody Disgusting.

SC: Oh now you didn’t need to plug Brad (everyone laughs). I may have to edit that out of the interview (laughs). Instead it’s going to read, “I find out all of my news from Dread Central: James Wan, Director of Saw.”

JW: (Laughs) Hey man go ahead, you can quote me on that.

SC: Brad and I are good friends so…

JW: Yeah, I thought so that’s why I brought it up.

SC: So you guys don’t know anything about a director at this point?

JW: I think they are going to be announcing it pretty soon. At this stage I will say, yes there is a guy on board.

SC: And you know who it is?

JW: (Pauses and then laughs).

SC: And you obviously know who it is (laughs).

LW: I mean we’re not talking about CIA secrets here. Yes we have met a guy that they are talking about for the sequel and I’m sure they will announce it soon. But things change every single day and this is true. What they tell us one day could change tomorrow. There is a script in the works and they’ve got this guy who they are talking to. So for our sakes right now we should just not say much and basically play the dumb role, which we seem to be awesome at (laughs).

SC: Let me ask you this and I’m not trying to pry about who the guy is but had you ever heard of him; are you familiar with his work; are you happy with the decision at this point? Or is he someone brand new?

LW: I’ll leave that one to James because he’s the director of the team (laughs).

JW: Thanks Leigh (laughs).

LW: While he’s thinking of some sort of PC answer I’ll give you a scoop. You wanna scoop?

SC: Of course.

LW: Leigh Whannell the actor is being courted by several of Hollywood’s loveliest leading ladies. Scarlett Johansson, Lindsay Lohan; who do you want a Hilton? Jessica Biel; there’s a scoop for your site.

JW: He hasn’t decided yet.

LW: And he’s got an enormous… talent (laughs). Could you spread that man? Come on help me out brother? The ‘D’ list; put me on the ‘D’ list (laughs).

SC: I’ll see what I can do. So back to the question at hand.

JW: Sean look, no comment at this stage.

SC: Oh! There’s nothing we hate more than, no comment.

JW: Come on Sean we’re buddies here man. I can bust a no comment out there at any point right, without you getting offended (laughs).

SC: I’ve already got the title for this piece, “Saw guys go Hollywood”. (Everyone laughs).

LW: You want us to really go Hollywood and start giving those answers where it sounds like we’ve told you something but we actually haven’t. You know the classic sports star thing where it’s like, “Well you know obviously things are moving ahead. Things are moving a day at a time and we’re really excited but we’ll let you know”. That would be more Hollywood.

SC: You know that when we can’t get answers all we can do is speculate.

LW: You know you can’t get anything out of me you bastard.

SC: “Saw 2 production sounds like it going down in flames. Creators can’t even discuss new director.” (Everyone laughs)

LW: Listen man if we meet up tonight and you buy me a few Vodkas I’ll start spilling everything (laughs).

SC: Name the time and place.

JW: Look Sean, I can honestly tell you this much. Leigh and I are working closely with whoever it is to make sure that Saw 2 stays true to the integrity of the first film. We are going to work as close as we possibly can while we try to get our other film up off the ground.

SC: Which one are you guys currently writing because they’re both not finished right?

LW: We have really been concentrating on Silence. That’s our actual priority as a project because it’s our baby; it’s our script.

JW: But at the same time we want to sort of protect the Saw franchise.

LW: Yeah. It’s that classic thing of that you’ve got a new child in your family that you have to pay attention to but your first child you can’t completely ignore it.

JW: Look Sean, when you have a writer like Leigh he can do all the writing for you (laughs).

LW: Yeah give me a laptop and let me write this article Sean (laughs). We want to over see it but our attention is so focused on Silence. It sort of hard to peal our eyes away from it right now but we definitely have to pay attention to Saw 2.

SC: Which one do you think will be done first script wise?

JW: I can tell you which one will get made first (laughs).

SC: Obviously Saw 2. My guess is they are pressuring you guys to get that done first.

JW: Of course because they want to get started pretty soon.

SC: Can you guys at least answer one question about the director just to set Saw fans at ease? It’s not Uwe Boll is it? (Everyone laughs).

LW: Two things, the writer is not Alex Garland and the director is not Uwe Boll. We begged him and begged him but he just kept saying, ‘No, I don’t wanna do it.’

SC: Maybe once you turn it into a video game he will be interested.

LW: Man you guys are brutal (laughs).

SC: Have you seen any of his films?

LW: No I actually haven’t.

JW: I saw House of the Dead.

SC: Big fan?

JW: No comment. (Everyone laughs).

SC: Thanks guys.

JW: Thank you Sean. That was a lot of fun.

LW: Thanks Sean.


I want to thank Leigh and James for a really fun and candid interview. We managed to get some cool news in between trying to make each other laugh. Also thanks again to Jodie Magid and Lions Gate for the great party and setting up this interview.

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