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Forums Index -> Out of Genre Experience -> Spider-man 4
Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:03 am  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:
Dr Malachi Constant wrote:
No, MM's right on that count. That slo-mo bit with the transformer somersaulting over that screaming girl is proof of it. Hack move.


Not to mention that the the final battle was so incomprehensible that it appeared as if Bay went out to a junkyard, rolled a ball of car parts down a hill, and filmed it all in extreme closeup.

At least Raimi's action scenes are competently shot, and I can actually see what's happening onscreen. Bay doesn't even know how to shoot.


See, maybe my eyes work better than yours, but I had no problem telling what was going on on screen...
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frank_dracman
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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Shocked DAMN. Guess I got to side with Messiahman for once. Transformers was HORRIBLE. With all the extreme close ups, you'd think Wayne and Garth were behind the camera. This might be a phase Bay is going through, because he is capable of shooting a watchable action scene. The Rock, besides being his best movie (which isn't saying a lot), looked really pretty. You could see what was going on, who was shooting who, and you gotta admit the car chase was cool.
Spider-Man, on the other hand, I liked. We'll forget about the third one, and just say the first two were some of my favorite comic movies. Toby is tolerable but they could have done better. Tom Everett Scott comes to mind.
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Messiahman
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:31 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Messiahman wrote:
Dr Malachi Constant wrote:
No, MM's right on that count. That slo-mo bit with the transformer somersaulting over that screaming girl is proof of it. Hack move.


Not to mention that the the final battle was so incomprehensible that it appeared as if Bay went out to a junkyard, rolled a ball of car parts down a hill, and filmed it all in extreme closeup.

At least Raimi's action scenes are competently shot, and I can actually see what's happening onscreen. Bay doesn't even know how to shoot.


See, maybe my eyes work better than yours, but I had no problem telling what was going on on screen...


Ah, so then I guess we could both tell that it was a ball of car parts rolled down a hill and filmed in extreme closeup by a baboon with ADD.

Sorry, but it's some of the worst cinematography ever committed to a Hollywood film, second only to the awful car chase sequence in BAD BOYS 2, during which Bay abandons any pretense of geography, forgoes master shots, and presents unconnected mayhem and explosions that make absolutely no visual sense at all. The only thing that is conveyed is jumbled movement. Only Bay could make car chases dull, could make giant robot fights bland, boring and incomprehensible.

That's great that you like it, and I guess it shows that there's an audience for pretty much anything... but that doesn't change the fact that it's damn near the most inept filmmaking ever captured on celluloid.

Nolan's films are light years beyond Bay's interminable two-hour trailers, and TDK's chase sequence alone is more visceral, exciting, well-filmed and expertly visualized than all of Bay's films combined. Sirand is right -- it's one of the best chase sequences ever filmed, and better yet, it actually serves the story and moves it forward -- it's not just a lone action setpiece. Even more amazingly, very nearly everything onscreen is fucking REAL -- not CGI enhanced tripe in the service of spectacularly unwatchable shit.

If you honestly think Bay's action sequences are interesting and well-shot, there's not much more that I can say, other than the fact that you must be either blind or spatially impaired.

By all means, enjoy whatever you want; cue up TRANSFORMERS and watch it on an endless loop. Me, I'm much happier with the real deal.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:02 am  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:

Ah, so then I guess we could both tell that it was a ball of car parts rolled down a hill and filmed in extreme closeup by a baboon with ADD.


Yep.

Quote:
Sorry, but it's some of the worst cinematography ever committed to a Hollywood film, second only to the awful car chase sequence in BAD BOYS 2, during which Bay abandons any pretense of geography, forgoes master shots, and presents unconnected mayhem and explosions that make absolutely no visual sense at all. The only thing that is conveyed is jumbled movement. Only Bay could make car chases dull, could make giant robot fights bland, boring and incomprehensible.


That's great that you like it, and I guess it shows that there's an audience for pretty much anything... but that doesn't change the fact that it's damn near the most inept filmmaking ever captured on celluloid.


You really are a master of hyperbole.

Quote:
Nolan's films are light years beyond Bay's interminable two-hour trailers, and TDK's chase sequence alone is more visceral, exciting, well-filmed and expertly visualized than all of Bay's films combined. Sirand is right -- it's one of the best chase sequences ever filmed, and better yet, it actually serves the story and moves it forward -- it's not just a lone action setpiece. Even more amazingly, very nearly everything onscreen is fucking REAL -- not CGI enhanced tripe in the service of spectacularly unwatchable shit.

If you honestly think Bay's action sequences are interesting and well-shot, there's not much more that I can say, other than the fact that you must be either blind or spatially impaired.


I don't think they're as well shot as others, but I don't think they're the mess that you make them out to be.

I get that Nolan used practical FX and that's awesome and commendable, but I would never, in a million years, put that chase in the same league as things like Ronin, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Road Warrior, and even Death Proof. It was a GOOD sequence, but it certainly isn't one of the best. I doubt, if you really thought about it outside of trying to overstate your point, you would put it in your top ten.

By all means, enjoy whatever you want; cue up TRANSFORMERS and watch it on an endless loop. Me, I'm much happier with the real deal.[/quote]
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Messiahman
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:53 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Messiahman wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but it's some of the worst cinematography ever committed to a Hollywood film, second only to the awful car chase sequence in BAD BOYS 2, during which Bay abandons any pretense of geography, forgoes master shots, and presents unconnected mayhem and explosions that make absolutely no visual sense at all. The only thing that is conveyed is jumbled movement. Only Bay could make car chases dull, could make giant robot fights bland, boring and incomprehensible.


That's great that you like it, and I guess it shows that there's an audience for pretty much anything... but that doesn't change the fact that it's damn near the most inept filmmaking ever captured on celluloid.


You really are a master of hyperbole.


I don't consider it hyperbole at all. I stand by every word of it. I consider Bay to be one of the most singularly untalented filmmakers working in Hollywood today. Period.
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Sirand
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:58 pm  Reply with quote
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And Messiah sure as hell not alone in his opinion.

People like Michael Bay, Paul W.S. Anderson, Uwe Boll, and those Disaster Movie fucks are fan whipping-boys for a DAMN GOOD REASON.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:25 am  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:

I don't consider it hyperbole at all. I stand by every word of it. I consider Bay to be one of the most singularly untalented filmmakers working in Hollywood today. Period.


Then you really need to watch more movies made by Hollywood filmmakers. Because that is BEYOND ridiculous.

And Sirand, I'm well aware of the ridiculous knee-jerk, pretentious, text book thumping rhetoric. So he's not alone. Is that suppose to mean something? No more than I know that I'm not alone in enjoying Transformers and other Bay movies. And there are probably a lot more of us than there are of you. Now what? What do you have next in your blanket statement hyperbole bingo party?
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The Buz
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:09 am  Reply with quote
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I like Bad Boys 2.
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Sirand
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:19 am  Reply with quote
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Didn't See It Coming wrote:
What do you have next in your blanket statement hyperbole bingo party?


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Messiahman
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Then you really need to watch more movies made by Hollywood filmmakers. Because that is BEYOND ridiculous.


I'll wager that I've seen more Hollywood (as well as non-Hollywood) films dating much farther back than you, and I can discuss them all in painfully exacting detail. It's my gift; it's my curse.

Which you'll find out firsthand if you ever get your contrary ass out here, ya good fer nuthin' bastid.

UFC Presents: MM vs. DSIC - Cage Match 2008! Whoever wins, we lose!

As for Bay, he's Uwe Boll with a larger budget and a less-refined sense of showmanship.
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Last edited by Messiahman on Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:10 am; edited 2 times in total
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Messiahman
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:08 am  Reply with quote



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The Buz wrote:
I like Bad Boys 2.


I'm well aware that you like it. Just as you're well aware that liking something doesn't make it "good." Razz
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:37 am  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:
Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Then you really need to watch more movies made by Hollywood filmmakers. Because that is BEYOND ridiculous.


I'll wager that I've seen more Hollywood (as well as non-Hollywood) films dating much farther back than you, and I can discuss them all in painfully exacting detail. It's my gift; it's my curse.


I'd wager that too, see how fun ridiculous statements can be? Probably not. Which is exactly why I think you're being ridiculously hyperbolic.

Quote:
Which you'll find out firsthand if you ever get your contrary ass out here, ya good fer nuthin' bastid.

UFC Presents: MM vs. DSIC - Cage Match 2008! Whoever wins, we lose!

As for Bay, he's Uwe Boll with a larger budget and a less-refined sense of showmanship.


Absurd. Absolutely absurd.
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Messiahman
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:28 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Absurd it may be; it's still the truth.

Anyway, quiet, you. As I already said, we'll settle this... in the CAGE!

You're going down, DSIC.

Incoming mail!
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:15 pm  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:
Absurd it may be; it's still the truth.

Anyway, quiet, you. As I already said, we'll settle this... in the CAGE!

You're going down, DSIC.

Incoming mail!


You don't want NONE of me....
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Tsotha-lanti
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:21 pm  Reply with quote



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Messiahman wrote:
As for Bay, he's Uwe Boll with a larger budget and a less-refined sense of showmanship.


No, that's Paul W. S. Anderson. Michael Bay is more like a dopier version of Tony Scott.
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