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Forums Index -> Out of Genre Experience -> Wolverine
ZombiDead
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:13 am  Reply with quote



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Does anyone else want a Wolverine movie set in Madripoor?
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Johnny Truant
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:10 am  Reply with quote



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Fireflyfan wrote:
Johnny Truant wrote:
I hope Brett Ratner does this and Jackie Chan gets to play as Wolverine because Ratner is a geniuse and I want stuff to blow up real good every time Woverine touches it because that is cool.


I want chris nolan to make it so it becomes boring and self important...oh wait, I don't want that Laughing


Good direction and character development are teh suxxor. Sad I mean it would be TERRIBLE to have a Wolverine film where we see Wolverine portrayed as he is in the comics! I mean a good movie, well paced, great cherography, no plot holes, an amazing philosphical script about a man with a tortured soul. Yeah that would be "boring!"

Give us lots of CGI and shit. Oh and kill people 'cause that's dark and ballsy and controversial, especially when those "characters" have no character at all and their deaths fall flat. Yeah yeah that's what we want!


Last edited by Johnny Truant on Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Johnny Truant
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:13 am  Reply with quote



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EvilRex wrote:
FireFlyFan, you know, dude, I think that's the first time you really presented the reasons behind your love for the film) or least that I've read). I respect that, you gave me clear, definite, tangible things to look at even if I disagree with them.

I still have to get on you, though, that people's dislike for the film isn't 100% stemming from the fact that Bret Ratner's name is attached. And think about this: if it was Bryan Singer's name attached to this, wouldn't the fans who dislike the film even hate it even more and demand Singer's head on a plate? I mean the same guy who brought us to awesome films in the X-Men universe comes back to us with this? Talk about a let down. The film had faults and people are pointing them out.

Sure, though, there is probably a segment of the audience who didn't give it a chance based on Ratner's involvement and/or Singer's lack there of. It's like the people who wouldn't give Hostel a chance on its own merits because of people's hate for Eli Roth. It's ridiculous, childish and you can't get anywhere with that train of thought.

I'll admit X3 is NOT bad. However, it isn't great to me either. There were elements missing in this last one that kept the film at a distance for me unlike the complete submersion I felt from X2. And X2 isn't perfect for me either. I never liked how Singer did nothing with the characterization of Scott and just had him there in the background most of the time. I also didn't like how you can sometimes sense Singer had a hard-on for the development and action revolving around Magneto that it took away from the deeper developments in the Xavier mutants.

My biggest issue is its script. If they were to hold off for one more summer or look at a Xmas '06 release and give more time to fleshing out and reworking the script instead of the mad rush to out-do Superman Returns then I would wager we'd have gotten a much better movie-- even one you'd agree is better than we got.

I hope they do that with Wolverine. There's no rush, no hurry. Give us the best script possible and start from there.


Exactly.
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PowerLeech
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:26 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 1062
Location: Floridindiana

How about casting Omega Red in the new movie?


Or would that be too much like Spiderman 2?


Last edited by PowerLeech on Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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DW Bostaph Jr
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:36 am  Reply with quote
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ZombiDead wrote:
Does anyone else want a Wolverine movie set in Madripoor?

This seems to be the likeliest of ways for them to go.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Fireflyfan wrote:
Didn't See It Coming wrote:

You're making unfounded statements...Just take a look at Rottentomatoes one-line blurbs for the film...A HUGE portion of them remark about Singer's absense and how it is felt on the film...And nearly EVERY review, positive and negative has mentioned it..


Exactly. If it was the same movie with Singer's name on it, most people who hate it would be loving it. I truly believe most of it is down to Rattner, and people's bias for him.


Exactly what?...Singer wouldn't have made the same exact movie and everyone who is saying his presence is missed can articulate exactly why...You're WAY off base...

Quote:
I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people can't see the heart of the movie....the wonderful relationship between Xavier and Magneto, Wolverine and Jean Grey produced some of the most emotional scenes of the trilogy for me. The whole cure angle produced so many ironies and issues....and it doesn't give you a straight awnser, which I like. It made me think more about the issues behind it and if it was right or wrong. I liked having a choice, and not having a ''THIS IS BAD'' message or ''IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO'' message being forced on me. The final scene with Wolverine and Jean really, really got tome.


The only emotional moment was Xavier's death for me...Just because something is supposed to be emotional or thought provoking, doesn't make it so...Do you really think X3 caused mass hysteria with TONS of people who were disappointed by it? And what about the people that have no clue who the fuck Bryan Singer is and didn't like it?

There are too many variables for you to say people didn't like it because of Ratner's name.

Quote:
I don't mind people hating the movie, but I truly don't believe it's because it lacks heart....I truly, really believe it's because it's Rattner's name on the poster. I don't mean it as an insult, I really don't.....so please don't take offense Rex. But I personally see it's themes and heart clearly, so I find it hard to buy that it lacks heart and intelligence, because I don't think it does, and I REALLY don't know why other people can't see it.


That is ridiculous...Seriously...That's like saying we would only like it merely if it had Singer's name on it...That's equally absurd...Being a fan of a director doesn't automatically make you like something they did, just like not being a fan...I'm not fond of Ron Howard as a director at all, but I have enjoyed movies he's done....

Quote:
Something like Fantastic Four is a pop corn movie...I had fun with it, but I certainly won't argue that it's anything more than an entertaining movie. I do know what the difference is....I guess it's just frustraiting because I seem to be seeing other people are missing (in my opinion).

I mean no offense, so don't take it personally- I just think it's Rattner's name, if anything , that causes the animosity. I don't mean to offend anyone, I could be wrong, butt that's just the way I feel- and that the main complaint is that ''Singer didn't make the movie'' in every review makes me sure that's why.

DSIC, Rex, you are both really cool guys, and I don't want to get in arguments like I did before, so don't take it too personally, and try and see if you can see where I am coming from?


I don't at all and I've said so repeatedly.
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Terminal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 8052
Location: Bronx, New York

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Exactly what?...Singer wouldn't have made the same exact movie and everyone who is saying his presence is missed can articulate exactly why...You're WAY off base...


I agree.

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
The only emotional moment was Xavier's death for me...Just because something is supposed to be emotional or thought provoking, doesn't make it so...


Agreed. Everything else was rather vapid.

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Do you really think X3 caused mass hysteria with TONS of people who were disappointed by it? And what about the people that have no clue who the fuck Bryan Singer is and didn't like it?


Great point.

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
There are too many variables for you to say people didn't like it because of Ratner's name.


Agreed.

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
That is ridiculous...Seriously...That's like saying we would only like it merely if it had Singer's name on it...That's equally absurd...Being a fan of a director doesn't automatically make you like something they did, just like not being a fan...I'm not fond of Ron Howard as a director at all, but I have enjoyed movies he's done....


Agreed.

I didn't hate the movie, I thought it had moments of entertainment, but it's the retarded cousin to the first two films. Ratner wanted so badly to rush to the climax and show off the big war that he didn't focus on story, character, atmosphere, motivation, progression, or real style.

Ratner gave us a light show and placed the story in the back burner, Singer gave us a story with actual reasons for the effects. His characters had reasons to do what they did, Ratner just wanted to fit as many characters as humanly possible, and show off his effects.

Hell, what was the point of the first scene?

They talk to a young Jean Grey? And what? What is it for? So we can see the effects that make Charles and Magneto look younger. And it was a giant plot hole. As a girl she could lift cars all over the neighborhood, but as an adult she had trouble opening a single door?

Nah, the third film was entertaining and that's all it had going for it.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Terminal wrote:


Hell, what was the point of the first scene?

They talk to a young Jean Grey? And what? What is it for? So we can see the effects that make Charles and Magneto look younger. And it was a giant plot hole. As a girl she could lift cars all over the neighborhood, but as an adult she had trouble opening a single door?

Nah, the third film was entertaining and that's all it had going for it.


I hate to explain a movie I thought was as dumb as X3, but the significance of the first scene, at least as far is this film, was to show what Jean was capable of, and how Xavier repressed her so she could barely open a door...
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Terminal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Location: Bronx, New York

Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Terminal wrote:


Hell, what was the point of the first scene?

They talk to a young Jean Grey? And what? What is it for? So we can see the effects that make Charles and Magneto look younger. And it was a giant plot hole. As a girl she could lift cars all over the neighborhood, but as an adult she had trouble opening a single door?

Nah, the third film was entertaining and that's all it had going for it.


I hate to explain a movie I thought was as dumb as X3, but the significance of the first scene, at least as far is this film, was to show what Jean was capable of, and how Xavier repressed her so she could barely open a door...


But in the X-Men film she explains that her powers haven't been as goodas she thought and Xavier was helping her to control them. Never was anything mentioned about repressing them. Besides, Xavier's philosophy in the first two was to help the mutants realize their power and control them, supressing them would be a contradiction to his character. Why repress them if you want to help them? Made no sense.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:15 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Terminal wrote:
Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Terminal wrote:


Hell, what was the point of the first scene?

They talk to a young Jean Grey? And what? What is it for? So we can see the effects that make Charles and Magneto look younger. And it was a giant plot hole. As a girl she could lift cars all over the neighborhood, but as an adult she had trouble opening a single door?

Nah, the third film was entertaining and that's all it had going for it.


I hate to explain a movie I thought was as dumb as X3, but the significance of the first scene, at least as far is this film, was to show what Jean was capable of, and how Xavier repressed her so she could barely open a door...


But in the X-Men film she explains that her powers haven't been as goodas she thought and Xavier was helping her to control them. Never was anything mentioned about repressing them. Besides, Xavier's philosophy in the first two was to help the mutants realize their power and control them, supressing them would be a contradiction to his character. Why repress them if you want to help them? Made no sense.


It actually does make sense...Jean explains this because she doesn't have a memory of Pheonix...Because Xavier kept it from her...And him repressing her Pheonix side was because she was dangerous...He wanted her to control the powers on her terms, the way she did in X2...Unfortunately, her "energy cocoon" must have awakened the dormant Pheonix...
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Terminal
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Terminal wrote:
Didn't See It Coming wrote:
Terminal wrote:


Hell, what was the point of the first scene?

They talk to a young Jean Grey? And what? What is it for? So we can see the effects that make Charles and Magneto look younger. And it was a giant plot hole. As a girl she could lift cars all over the neighborhood, but as an adult she had trouble opening a single door?

Nah, the third film was entertaining and that's all it had going for it.


I hate to explain a movie I thought was as dumb as X3, but the significance of the first scene, at least as far is this film, was to show what Jean was capable of, and how Xavier repressed her so she could barely open a door...


But in the X-Men film she explains that her powers haven't been as goodas she thought and Xavier was helping her to control them. Never was anything mentioned about repressing them. Besides, Xavier's philosophy in the first two was to help the mutants realize their power and control them, supressing them would be a contradiction to his character. Why repress them if you want to help them? Made no sense.


It actually does make sense...Jean explains this because she doesn't have a memory of Pheonix...Because Xavier kept it from her...And him repressing her Pheonix side was because she was dangerous...He wanted her to control the powers on her terms, the way she did in X2...Unfortunately, her "energy cocoon" must have awakened the dormant Pheonix...


Good point. I stand corrected.
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ZombiDead
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 630

Lord Cthulhu wrote:
ZombiDead wrote:
Does anyone else want a Wolverine movie set in Madripoor?

This seems to be the likeliest of ways for them to go.


The latest rumblings have this being a Weapon X movie, not one set in Madripoor........

I just keep remembering an issue of the comics were Wolverine has a favor called in by a mob guy in Madripoor to watch his kid while him and his guys go to war. It would make for a pretty good chunk of a movie, and the story Logan tells the kid would give more hint to the animal like side of Wolverine......

Just my thoughts though Mr. Green
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EvilRex
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:04 pm  Reply with quote



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It could be possible to combine both a Madripor and Weapon X story into one Wolverine movie. (Just don't make the mistake of X3 and cram too much in.)
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Fireflyfan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:27 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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Johnny Truant wrote:
Fireflyfan wrote:
Johnny Truant wrote:
I hope Brett Ratner does this and Jackie Chan gets to play as Wolverine because Ratner is a geniuse and I want stuff to blow up real good every time Woverine touches it because that is cool.


I want chris nolan to make it so it becomes boring and self important...oh wait, I don't want that Laughing


Good direction and character development are teh suxxor. Sad I mean it would be TERRIBLE to have a Wolverine film where we see Wolverine portrayed as he is in the comics! I mean a good movie, well paced, great cherography, no plot holes, an amazing philosphical script about a man with a tortured soul. Yeah that would be "boring!"

Give us lots of CGI and shit. Oh and kill people 'cause that's dark and ballsy and controversial, especially when those "characters" have no character at all and their deaths fall flat. Yeah yeah that's what we want!




If you don't think the charaters in x3 acted like the comics, I would suggest than you have never read an x men comic in your life.

Jean Grey and Wolverine having a mutual love and attraction?

HELL NAW, THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE COMICS!

WTF? They made Beast an intelligent and smart, thoughtful guy? whattup with dat, dawg?

Magneto and Professor X being friends? where did they get that crazy idea from?

You're completely right about it being nothing like the comics...

whatever next? sabretooth talking like an intelligent and crafty supervillain, instead of a glorified grunt? Stop it now, I tells ya!
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Fireflyfan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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EvilRex wrote:
FireFlyFan, you know, dude, I think that's the first time you really presented the reasons behind your love for the film) or least that I've read). I respect that, you gave me clear, definite, tangible things to look at even if I disagree with them.

I still have to get on you, though, that people's dislike for the film isn't 100% stemming from the fact that Bret Ratner's name is attached. And think about this: if it was Bryan Singer's name attached to this, wouldn't the fans who dislike the film even hate it even more and demand Singer's head on a plate? I mean the same guy who brought us to awesome films in the X-Men universe comes back to us with this? Talk about a let down. The film had faults and people are pointing them out.

Sure, though, there is probably a segment of the audience who didn't give it a chance based on Ratner's involvement and/or Singer's lack there of. It's like the people who wouldn't give Hostel a chance on its own merits because of people's hate for Eli Roth. It's ridiculous, childish and you can't get anywhere with that train of thought.

I'll admit X3 is NOT bad. However, it isn't great to me either. There were elements missing in this last one that kept the film at a distance for me unlike the complete submersion I felt from X2. And X2 isn't perfect for me either. I never liked how Singer did nothing with the characterization of Scott and just had him there in the background most of the time. I also didn't like how you can sometimes sense Singer had a hard-on for the development and action revolving around Magneto that it took away from the deeper developments in the Xavier mutants.

My biggest issue is its script. If they were to hold off for one more summer or look at a Xmas '06 release and give more time to fleshing out and reworking the script instead of the mad rush to out-do Superman Returns then I would wager we'd have gotten a much better movie-- even one you'd agree is better than we got.

I hope they do that with Wolverine. There's no rush, no hurry. Give us the best script possible and start from there.



I agree that not all the hate for it comes from Brett Rattner's name...but people like Sirand (I don't mean to pick on him but he's the clearest example I can think of) picked out things that were either wrong or prevelant in Singer's movies as well.

For example, he complained about under use of characters....singer did it with colossus, sabretooth, toad, and Cyclops (who was underused in TWO of his films).

Also he complained about Pyro being able to create fire (which he doesn't in the movie, as you see his lighter/flamethrower device in his hand).

He also said shadowcat and rogue's powers cant be transferred instantly (although they can in the comics and other movies).

so you see what I mean more? Im not saying it applies to all people, but the majority yes. I also believe Johnny Truant cares more about a director's name than the actual quality of the movie....but hopefully you can see what I mean about some of the more baseless critisims people have leveled at the movie.

I felt this movie also nailed characters more (storm wasnt just an annoying extra, jean grey actually had personality), and wolverine was more wolverine than before (him lighting up a cigarette on burning debris is pure wolverine, and his little quip about ''grow those back'' after kickign a guy in the nads and playing dirty).

I also liked how it showed another side to xavier other than kindly father figure. it made him more human.
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