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Forums Index -> The Shiver Shack -> Zodiac
The Woman In Black
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:33 pm  Reply with quote
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Even though Fincher had me by the throat by starting out with Easy to be Hard, one of my all-time favorite songs from my youth, after the first hour it was pretty much downhill for me. I was engrossed until the film just hit a wall. Yeah, I get that police business is monotonous and obsessive, but come on, man. Watching Jake run here and there and back and forth just wore me down. What? He's so obsessed that he loses his wife and family, but he somehow always managed to keep his biweekly barber appointment? The guy never once had a hair out of place.

And why the hell wasn't there any music setting the tone after the first third of the film? One Santana song doesn't sell me on the 70's. Such a wasted opportunity! To me it just deteriorated into a Law & Order type procedural with nothing standing out except one or two exceptionally beautiful shots to tease us now and then. Yes, it did bring me back into the story for the last half hour, but it was too little, too late.

Even so, I did thoroughly enjoy the performances (especially Downey Jr.) and expect to see some Zodiac actors during next year's award season, even if Anthony Edwards' toupee was way too distracting -- it came close to rivaling Nic Cage's in Ghost Rider. Laughing
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Sirand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Here's my little DC rebuttal:

Quote:
For true crime aficionados, Zodiac may just be the holy grail of cinema. After enduring years of DTV serial killer biopics, as well as DePalma’s wretched take on the Black Dahlia, director David Fincher has delivered the ultimate breath of fresh air with one of the most engaging police procedurals ever filmed. Fans expecting another Se7en may find themselves bored with this epic of talking heads and paper trails, but most viewers will find themselves scrambling to Wikipedia, hungry for more facts on the infamous unsolved case.

The plot details have already been well-discussed, but it should be noted that Zodiac is a film entirely about obsession – a killer’s obsession with infamy, a group’s obsession with catching him, and Fincher’s own obsession with the facts. In short, it’s the horror movie equivalent of JFK.

If there’s one thing Mr. Fincher has proven ever since he broke into the biz, it’s that he loves to make people feel uncomfortable and he once again brings his brand of melancholy and paranoia to even the most mundane of scenes. Furthermore, Zodiac sets itself apart by not conforming to the conventions of this subgenre. The script doesn’t revolve around fictional heroes and there’s no niave attempts to get inside the mind of the killer. You also won’t find anything in the way of convenient character arcs, three-act structures, or quaint Hollywood resolutions. Fincher simply lets the real-life details appear like ripples in the water, which are as scattered and random as the Zodiac’s victims. The result is that your guard is never down, even though the actual murders are few and far between.

While Fincher instills a few of his visual flourishes, the gimmicky style that bogged down Panic Room has been completely jettisoned, in its place the restrained look of a classic 70s film. Most importantly, he perfectly captures the details of the era without lowering to cheese ball Forest Gump level period clichés (you won’t hear Hendrix or “Freebird” anywhere on the soundtrack). Each individual cast-member is completely believable and carries their own set of eccentricities, and while you’ll find yourself missing certain characters during long-stretches, the events are gripping enough to sustain the 158-minute running time.

Zodiac is a film that demands a lot from its audience and offers nothing in the way of cheap rewards. Like the best David Fincher films it’s a mature, calculated, and uncompromised work that exists completely outside of the box.
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The Woman In Black
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:27 pm  Reply with quote
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I'll grant you that Zodiac is one of the best true crime genre films ever made -- next to In Cold Blood, Helter Skelter, and a few others I'm partial to -- but I have to call into question the opinion of anyone who considers Hendrix a Forest Gump level period cliché. That's wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. Annoyed
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Sirand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:47 pm  Reply with quote
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I loves me some Hendrix, but EVERY fucking movie about that period has him blaring on the soundtrack.

The music in Zodiac is one of the most ingenius aspects of it.
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Messiahman
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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The Woman In Black wrote:
I'll grant you that Zodiac is one of the best true crime genre films ever made -- next to In Cold Blood, Helter Skelter, and a few others I'm partial to -- but I have to call into question the opinion of anyone who considers Hendrix a Forest Gump level period cliché. That's wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. Annoyed


I think what he's saying is that the use of obvious tunes like Hendrix or Skynrd have become formulaic cinematic shorthand for saying "oooh look, we're in another decade." I always hate it in films when something like this happens. When you watch films made in the seventies, they certainly don't do this, and usually if you hear a song, it's some forgotten, shitty one-hit wonder that was popular for about five seconds. The films exist in the decade but don't call attention to it. A good period piece should work the same way, and musical cues are much less important than tone and production design in the grand scheme of the film. Andrew's FORREST GUMP example is dead-on, as that particular film used plenty of lazy filmmaking and storytelling techniques like this to get establish its varying periods, none of it done with the grace or subtlety of ZODIAC.
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The Woman In Black
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:52 pm  Reply with quote
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Sirand wrote:
The music in Zodiac is one of the most ingenius aspects of it.


In the beginning of the film, yeah, I'd agree, but then it just died. I kept hoping to hear more music during the 70's portion, but it never came.

Black Snake Moan, on the other hand, now that's a soundtrack!
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Ultimo Franco
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:00 am  Reply with quote



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ZODIAC is to serial killer films what BOOGIE NIGHTS is to the golden age of the porn film.
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Mr. Frost
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:08 pm  Reply with quote



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I have not seen the film yet but I have been hearing good things about it. I am curious though if anyone here is a fan of the real life case file like myself?

I am a little dissapointed that the film tries to prove that Arthur Leigh Allen was The Zodiac when in reality, there is next to no forensic evidence that proves Allen was the killer.

IMO Allen was nothing more than a pedophile who was a likely suspect, nothing more.

His fingerprints did not match the killers, his handwriting did not match the killers and he passed a 10 hour polygraph test about the murders.

It was Robert Graysmith who exaggerated the tenuous links between Allen and Zodiac in his book "ZODIAC" which seems to have become the record among the public and obviously the makers of this film regarding the case but it should be known that ultimately Allen was never charged and this case remains open.
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EmilyRose
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:29 pm  Reply with quote



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i cant wait to c this moive it looks so good
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The Buz
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:03 am  Reply with quote
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Mr. Frost wrote:
I have not seen the film yet but I have been hearing good things about it. I am curious though if anyone here is a fan of the real life case file like myself?

I am a little dissapointed that the film tries to prove that Arthur Leigh Allen was The Zodiac when in reality, there is next to no forensic evidence that proves Allen was the killer.

IMO Allen was nothing more than a pedophile who was a likely suspect, nothing more.

His fingerprints did not match the killers, his handwriting did not match the killers and he passed a 10 hour polygraph test about the murders.

It was Robert Graysmith who exaggerated the tenuous links between Allen and Zodiac in his book "ZODIAC" which seems to have become the record among the public and obviously the makers of this film regarding the case but it should be known that ultimately Allen was never charged and this case remains open.


There are tons of other suspects out there (Rick Marshel being one of my big ones) that I think fit it better than Allen, however certain things should be taken into account; Allen had others lick his envelopes (which would explain the none match to the DNA) and also the gloves were left behind on purpose at the Stine scene (well at least I think they were intentionally left), which could have been done to throw the police off of him. There are lots of little coincidences too that lead me to think it was Allen, but there are a ton of stuff that makes me think otherwise as well, such as the polygraph test and even a video of him saying he was not the zodiac are all pretty convincing.

The thing we have to keep in mind though is that the Zodiac is smarter than us, and smarter than most of the people working on the case...it really could be anyone.
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Mr. Frost
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:19 am  Reply with quote



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Quote:
The thing we have to keep in mind though is that the Zodiac is smarter than us, and smarter than most of the people working on the case...it really could be anyone.


That made me LOL.

True though. I wonder why he has not resumed his "work"?

He must be dead at this point, could be another BTK though or more likely changed his MO but I find that unlikely.

There was a great episode of "Millenium" called "The Mikato" which was a ripoff of the Zodiac but it did a really good job of dipicting a come back of the killer but with a different MO.

and of course Frank Black knew it was the original killer (Zodiac)

Great fucking show that was
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The Buz
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:27 am  Reply with quote
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Mr. Frost wrote:
Quote:
The thing we have to keep in mind though is that the Zodiac is smarter than us, and smarter than most of the people working on the case...it really could be anyone.


That made me LOL.

True though. I wonder why he has not resumed his "work"?

He must be dead at this point, could be another BTK though or more likely changed his MO but I find that unlikely.

There was a great episode of "Millenium" called "The Mikato" which was a ripoff of the Zodiac but it did a really good job of dipicting a come back of the killer but with a different MO.

and of course Frank Black knew it was the original killer (Zodiac)

Great fucking show that was


Never seen that show, I need to check it out.

Who is your prime suspect? I've come to think it was Rick Marshell.
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Mr. Frost
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:15 am  Reply with quote



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I like Rick Marshell as well as a suspect. Better than Allen anyways.

What is it for you? The tie in between him being a projectionist and the "Red Phantom" letter sent to the police?
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The Buz
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:21 am  Reply with quote
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Mr. Frost wrote:
I like Rick Marshell as well as a suspect. Better than Allen anyways.

What is it for you? The tie in between him being a projectionist and the "Red Phantom" letter sent to the police?


His background in the movie business, background in the Navy, and the fact that he had a sewing machine and knew how to sew. Thats a big one for me.
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kILLmEsLOWLY
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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Ultimo Franco wrote:
ZODIAC is to serial killer films what BOOGIE NIGHTS is to the golden age of the porn film.

I'm unsure if that is a compliment or a degradation? Shocked
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