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Forums Index -> The Shiver Shack -> Anchor Bay's MARIO BAVA COLLECTION, VOL. 1...
Richard Bastard
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 3690
Location: Chicago, Illinois

yeah, I just read the news, too... bummer. http://www.videowatchdog.blogspot.com/
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Borgosi
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1126

I'm gonna be passing this one by, I have most of the movies and without the english versions I see no reason to buy this.
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sonny gaunt
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 1350
Location: Hellertown, PA

Borgosi wrote:
I'm gonna be passing this one by, I have most of the movies and without the english versions I see no reason to buy this.

My good friend, the anamorphic transfer is the reason. But the VWD update(2/15) is newer news, no?
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thedudeabides
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:20 am  Reply with quote
Violent Misanthrope


Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 26024
Location: In FarinaMystica's Heart.

I prefer watching original language with subtitles, so unless actual content is changed I still will be checking this out.
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sonny gaunt
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 1350
Location: Hellertown, PA

Score two for the true fans-FUCK the Ameri-re-cut-propaganda-bullshit-edits. IF YOU CAN'T READ GET THE FUCK OUT. And please give me a 16x9 anamorphic print.
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pondo sinatra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Location: Nagoya Diamond Cutter: Feel The BANG

thedudeabides wrote:
I prefer watching original language with subtitles, so unless actual content is changed I still will be checking this out.


Considering Bava shot many of his films in English (the language most of his leads could speak, since they came from England, America, Germany, Italy, France, etc.) that is misguided.

Speakign of misguided, it reminds me of overhearing fans claim THE CAT O'NINE TAILS should be screened in Italian and subtitled, just because it was made by an Italian (for the international market) in Italy, and featured most of its leads actually speaking English during its shoot.

It also reminds me of an argument I had with a doofus who walked out of a screening of Werner Herzog's COBRA VERDE because the theatrical print was in English (the language it was shot in, Synch sound, too) because it wasn't, "in German." He threw a petulant frenzy about it, too, Alerting the entire theater (and no, it wasn't Joel Siegel).

Now, if you wanted to prefer a subtitled version because it was uncut - while the English version was not - then I can understand.
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pondo sinatra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Location: Nagoya Diamond Cutter: Feel The BANG

sonny gaunt wrote:
Score two for the true fans-FUCK the Ameri-re-cut-propaganda-bullshit-edits. IF YOU CAN'T READ GET THE FUCK OUT. And please give me a 16x9 anamorphic print.


Were you the guy who stormed off in hysterics during the COBRA VERDE screening in Pittsburgh in 1994?
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thedudeabides
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:35 pm  Reply with quote
Violent Misanthrope


Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 26024
Location: In FarinaMystica's Heart.

pondo sinatra wrote:
thedudeabides wrote:
I prefer watching original language with subtitles, so unless actual content is changed I still will be checking this out.


Considering Bava shot many of his films in English (the language most of his leads could speak, since they came from England, America, Germany, Italy, France, etc.) that is misguided...



...Now, if you wanted to prefer a subtitled version because it was uncut - while the English version was not - then I can understand.


That's exactly what I meant. Wink

I'm more interested in a complete print, no matter what language edit may be on it - BUT as a personal preference I prefer original language prints when the option is there.
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Borgosi
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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sonny gaunt wrote:
Score two for the true fans-FUCK the Ameri-re-cut-propaganda-bullshit-edits. IF YOU CAN'T READ GET THE FUCK OUT. And please give me a 16x9 anamorphic print.


I have the original release of all of them, that were released, and they are subtitled, and anamorphic doesn't matter when you watch them with a digital projector.
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pondo sinatra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Location: Nagoya Diamond Cutter: Feel The BANG

thedudeabides wrote:
I prefer original language prints when the option is there.


Again, this is a tricky thing with Italian cinema (genre and otherwise) from the sixties to the eighties: what is the "original language" for particular productions where all of the leads are speaking in English while it's photographed, regardless if it's their native tongue - the financing and distribtuions comes from Rome, Berlin, sometimes the States, and it's made for international distribution...

What is the "original" dialect?

Throw in the wrench that the international prints shipepd to territories like Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan are often English-langauge versions - and let's say the film is the director's cut on all fronts: what is the "original language?"

Tricky stuff.

I just laugh when I walk by dealer's tables, read on a web site or magazine or fanzine when the dealer/author just assumes that a film's original language is based upon its director's coutnry of origin, as oppsoed to various other factors. Sometimes the fact a film is available uncut in one perticular language makes the decision for presentation easy. Sometimes, when all of the prints are teh same, regardless of the lagnauge presentation - that's where the fun begins and you can tell which authors/dealers really know their stuff. I digress.
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Borgosi
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1126

pondo sinatra wrote:
thedudeabides wrote:
I prefer original language prints when the option is there.


Again, this is a tricky thing with Italian cinema (genre and otherwise) from the sixties to the eighties: what is the "original language" for particular productions where all of the leads are speaking in English while it's photographed, regardless if it's their native tongue - the financing and distribtuions comes from Rome, Berlin, sometimes the States, and it's made for international distribution...

What is the "original" dialect?

Throw in the wrench that the international prints shipepd to territories like Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan are often English-langauge versions - and let's say the film is the director's cut on all fronts: what is the "original language?"

Tricky stuff.

I just laugh when I walk by dealer's tables, read on a web site or magazine or fanzine when the dealer/author just assumes that a film's original language is based upon its director's coutnry of origin, as oppsoed to various other factors. Sometimes the fact a film is available uncut in one perticular language makes the decision for presentation easy. Sometimes, when all of the prints are teh same, regardless of the lagnauge presentation - that's where the fun begins and you can tell which authors/dealers really know their stuff. I digress.


I would like to see some of these films released as filmed with each actor speaking in his/her native langauge with subtitles. That way english subtitles would only appear when an actor is speaking in a langauge other than english, the same thing would happen with subtitles for other langauges. French or spanish subtitles would only appear when actor is speaking a langauge other than those langauges. Most people simply don't like the look of dubbed movies and that would take care of that.
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pondo sinatra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Location: Nagoya Diamond Cutter: Feel The BANG

Borgosi wrote:


I would like to see some of these films released as filmed with each actor speaking in his/her native langauge with subtitles. That way english subtitles would only appear when an actor is speaking in a langauge other than english, the same thing would happen with subtitles for other langauges. French or spanish subtitles would only appear when actor is speaking a langauge other than those langauges. Most people simply don't like the look of dubbed movies and that would take care of that.


Seriously, the problems with that are two-fold:

A.) Some films were shot mos with no reference track.

B.) Most productions scrapped their reference tracks after the final cuts were locked and the various ADR work (voice overs, in aprticular) was completed. So, there's a snowball's chance in hell for many films to go back and do that. A final, smaller point would be the fact that some actors only learned the English for their dialogue and knew that they'd be dubbed over in various territories anyway, so their lines would probably have really, really weird intonation at unnatural points, and sometimes might even be slurred. I recall Eastwood and David Brandon mentioning in two different interviews that a lot of the European actors whould do their best to memorize their English dialogue and then proceed to speak in a mix of the English they remembered, and then break into Italian/native tongue so the mono-lingual English speakers would heve to work off of this hodge-podge and try to keep their game on.

I'd be surreal, that's for sure.


Last edited by pondo sinatra on Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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elric300
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 238

Yup. Remember, that the overwhelming majority of Italian made films are dubbed anyway, even the ones in Italian. That's how Christopher Lee got dubbed in two of his movies, and why he puts it in his contract to do his own dubbing.

Regarding BLACK SABBATH, I really only want the Karloff intros and the episode he's in. THE TELEPHONE episode is completely different in the Italian dub, and reflects the original story. THE DROP OF WATER was left intact. Also, Karloff's intros were different in the BLACK SABBATH version that AIP released.

In this case, a hybrid language version would almost be the ideal one, with THE WURDELAK episode being in English and containing Karloff and Mark Damon's voices.

A similar situation exists for the Poe trilogy SPIRITS OF THE DEAD. In the Fellini
one, NEVER BET THE DEVIL YOUR HEAD, it's currently all in Italian, and given the the adaptation deals with an Englishman stuck in Italy and feeling isolated, the best approach is English for Terence Stamp's lines, and Italian for the rest. These can both be done, but it's a bit tricky doing it straight from a premixed dvd or even VHS.

It's frustrating that ABE can't release the AIP versions because to me it just smacks of greed on FOX/MGM's side. I seriously doubt that we'll see separate releases of these versions, especially with the original cuts so readily available. Putting them in a boxed set like this is the best way to make them available.
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Borgosi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1126

pondo sinatra wrote:
Borgosi wrote:


I would like to see some of these films released as filmed with each actor speaking in his/her native langauge with subtitles. That way english subtitles would only appear when an actor is speaking in a langauge other than english, the same thing would happen with subtitles for other langauges. French or spanish subtitles would only appear when actor is speaking a langauge other than those langauges. Most people simply don't like the look of dubbed movies and that would take care of that.


Seriously, the problems with that are two-fold:

A.) Some films were shot mos with no reference track.

B.) Most productions scrapped their reference tracks after the final cuts were locked and the various ADR work (voice overs, in aprticular) was completed. So, there's a snowball's chance in hell for many films to go back and do that. A final, smaller point would be the fact that some actors only learned the English for their dialogue and knew that they'd be dubbed over in various territories anyway, so their lines would probably have really, really weird intonation at unnatural points, and sometimes might even be slurred. I recall Eastwood and David Brandon mentioning in two different interviews that a lot of the European actors whould do their best to memorize their English dialogue and then proceed to speak in a mix of the English they remembered, and then break into Italian/native tongue so the mono-lingual English speakers would heve to work off of this hodge-podge and try to keep their game on.

I'd be surreal, that's for sure.


I never said it would be easy or that it could be done at all, it's just what I'd like to see at least with Black Sabbath. I'd but the entire set for Karloff's part in English from that one movie. The rest I'm happy with the first release.
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elric300
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 238

The only thing I could really do with BLACK SABBATH/THREE FACES OF FEAR was basically, just cut in Karloff's English intros and have THE WURDELAK in English. That episode wasn't cut, but it did have some of the shots zoomed in to downplay some gory details.

But, now that I won't have a really nice, widescreen copy to work with, I may have to wait before producing a final version of that Sad .
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