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Richard Bastard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 3690
Location: Chicago, Illinois

conundrum wrote:

If "Sandman" keeps it up it is probably the best comic I have read.


Sandman not only keeps it up, it gets better. Preacher I stopped reading after the fifth or sixth book. I really want to check out Fables, speaking of Vertigo. My favorite Vertigo comic still has to be The Invisibles.
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EvilRex
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: ORLANDO

conundrum wrote:
So I caved in to peer pressuse and have been reading through the graphic novels of "Sandman" and "Preacher." Up to the third book for each of them and I have to say that they are both quite good. One moreso than the other.

Do not get me wrong, I am really enjoying "Preacher", but next to "Sandman" it really flounders. After the first volumes I may have gone with "Preacher", but once "Sandman" got away from throwing in other characters from the DC universe it was just in a league of its own. The only other comics I can think of that I like this much are "Amazing Spider-Man" and "Walking Dead."

If "Sandman" keeps it up it is probably the best comic I have read.


I had a theory at one time that you were either a "Sandman" person or a "Preacher" person. (Sort of like the old Beatles vs Elvis argument). I based it on the fact that back in the day, my roommate and I were really digging both Sandman and Preacher; however, when it came down to it I favored Preacher and he favored Sandman. We both thought both books were great and better than most everything else going, but we differed when it came to our 1 absolute favorite of the two.

Preacher appealed to my gritty, dark, ultra-violent, western, noir, stright-up buddy/road story side. Sandman appealed to his abstract, literal, metaphysical, mythological, romantic, intellectual side.

I love the hell out of Sandman, but will never fail to admit that Preacher is and has been my all-time favorite comic series to date.
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Samhain
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:31 pm  Reply with quote
Glory Hole


Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 6893
Location: Connecticut

Well, I used to get a SLEW of horror comics (mostly from IDW), but keeping up with 'em was becoming too expensive.

I've stuck with the classics: 'Batman' & 'Detective Comics'

'Justice League Of America' just started again from 0, so I'm starting on that one and '52' has been pretty damn good so far.
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FleshyHeadedMutant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Parts Unknown , Mi.

Speaking of IDW , has anyone else read Road to Hell ?

If so , was anyone else as confused as I was ? I kept having to go back & check to see if I had missed some pages Confused .
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flashback
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 234
Location: indianapolis, indiana

Samhain wrote:
Well, I used to get a SLEW of horror comics (mostly from IDW), but keeping up with 'em was becoming too expensive.

I've stuck with the classics: 'Batman' & 'Detective Comics'

'Justice League Of America' just started again from 0, so I'm starting on that one and '52' has been pretty damn good so far.


my comicbook reading goes so far back I remember reading the justice league of america when it first came out in showcase in 1962 or so.damn I feel old.
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Samhain
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:46 pm  Reply with quote
Glory Hole


Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 6893
Location: Connecticut

flashback wrote:
Samhain wrote:
Well, I used to get a SLEW of horror comics (mostly from IDW), but keeping up with 'em was becoming too expensive.

I've stuck with the classics: 'Batman' & 'Detective Comics'

'Justice League Of America' just started again from 0, so I'm starting on that one and '52' has been pretty damn good so far.


my comicbook reading goes so far back I remember reading the justice league of america when it first came out in showcase in 1962 or so.damn I feel old.


Oh my! Laughing

I actually have some Marvel and DC comics that I started getting in the early 70's.
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LivingDeadPunk
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 5679
Location: Cleveland, OH

Samhain wrote:
flashback wrote:
Samhain wrote:
Well, I used to get a SLEW of horror comics (mostly from IDW), but keeping up with 'em was becoming too expensive.

I've stuck with the classics: 'Batman' & 'Detective Comics'

'Justice League Of America' just started again from 0, so I'm starting on that one and '52' has been pretty damn good so far.


my comicbook reading goes so far back I remember reading the justice league of america when it first came out in showcase in 1962 or so.damn I feel old.


Oh my! Laughing

I actually have some Marvel and DC comics that I started getting in the early 70's.
I think the oldest things I have are some 35 cent Thor issues. My older brothers were buying some classic stories like the alcoholic Ironman, Spidey-Lizard, the Dark Phoenix Saga, etc. and when they got too old (HA! Suckers!) they gave all of those to me. I started buying my own on a regular basis in the mid to late '80s. Before then I would just pick up whatever had a neat cover, but didn't follow anything regularly.
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The Buz
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:55 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 3590
Location: Cow Palace.

I just finished my last Preacher book. FUCKING AMAZING!

Now I'm thinking about moving onto either 100 Bullets, Sandman, or Y.

Anyone care to make a recommendation?
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conundrum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Sandman, SANDMAN! It will get rid of those silly notions of Preacher being the best comic ever (maybe not, but I am reading both at once and Sandman has me way more captivated).
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Richard Bastard
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 3690
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Atomic_Ilk wrote:
I just finished my last Preacher book. FUCKING AMAZING!

Now I'm thinking about moving onto either 100 Bullets, Sandman, or Y.

Anyone care to make a recommendation?


Daniel Clowes "Like A Velvet Glove Cast In Iron"

or Charles Burns "Black Hole"

or Art Spiegelman's "Maus"
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EvilRex
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: ORLANDO

Atomic_Ilk wrote:
I just finished my last Preacher book. FUCKING AMAZING!

Now I'm thinking about moving onto either 100 Bullets, Sandman, or Y.

Anyone care to make a recommendation?


Go with Sandman. I don't care to sound repetitive, but Preacher was the greatest for me and Sandman is a very close 2nd.

Preludes and Nocturnes starts the series off great --especially "24 Hours"-- but once you get into Seasons of Mist the story really gets out there.
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brainee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 620
Location: WI

conundrum wrote:
Sandman, SANDMAN! It will get rid of those silly notions of Preacher being the best comic ever (maybe not, but I am reading both at once and Sandman has me way more captivated).


"Sandman" is my favorite comic series. IMO, its just brilliant and transcends the "comic" medium. Or rather, its a perfect illustration of how a medium of drawn pictures and words can attain heights of artistic brilliance worthy of any art form -- rather than it being something to be looked down on as either for kids or mental defectives. "Sandman" got me into comics at a late age in the mid 90s. I was never that into comics as a kid. I mean, I knew most the characters, picked up books that were lying around at friends or in stores. But I don't I bought any, or was into stories. But being a big fan of horror/fantasy, buzz about "Sandman" started to catch me, and they were getting around to collecting early issues in trades (this was before pretty much everything got to trades, and the "Sandman" series was still being published). I loved it, and before you know it I had to find a local comic dealer to get new issues of "Sandman", along with trying other books by Gaiman and Vertigo. "Sandman" is one of those books that also doesn't outstay its welcome -- Gaiman has an ending in mind that is built up to from the middle of the run. You're only sad its over so soon. If I have a minor quibble about the series, it's with the changes of artists. I got used to the style of the early books, and didn't like when they switched to a guy with a highly stylized (and much less realistic) look for the key arc ("The Kindly Ones").

I think before "Sandman", the only comic I bought was "The Dark Knight Returns". It was great, but at the time there just weren't many trades out, and it seemed imposing to search individual comics to find others of that quality. After "Sandman" I was really into Vertigo for a while. "Preacher" was great fun, though it seemed to run out of steam somewhat in the middle of the run (before picking up at the end). So I like "Sandman" and "Preacher" -- I'd rank "Sandman" higher, but they're so different it doesn't seem fair to compare them.

Other books/series I was into:

"Swamp Thing": forget your thoughts of the cheesy movies. Alan Moore's run on ST was brilliant (and scary as hell). This is the series that got DC to abandon the "Comic Code Approval" for good, and was the first "Mature Audiences" major publisher comic. They're reprinting Moore's run in trades now, so if you haven't read it, there's no excuse no to. After Moore, the ST series was spotty. Rick Veitch did a decent job after Moore, though there was a controversial "firing" after he included a Swamp Thinng encounter with Jesus Christ. Doug Wheeler nearly killed the book, getting mired down in a confusing storyline and ugly art. Horror author Nancy Collins was an improvement, though her stories were disappointingly tame (especially if you've read her novels) and filled with overdone political correctness. The last few years of the series was a return to brilliance, with Grant Morrison and Mark Millar -- I like that the series had the balls to turn Swamp Thing into an outright villain, with John Constantine being the one to step up to try to stop him. I haven't been keeping up with the several reboots since then. Still, Moore's ST is essential reading for horror comic fans.

"Swamp Thing" got me into more by Moore. "Watchmen" is a masterpiece. "From Hell" was ok ... rather convoluted and I didn't care for the scribbly artwork. No doubting its ambition though. A surprise for me was "Miracleman" ... a superhero deconstruction that predates "Watchmen" that on the surface is a generic superhero story. But then it goes in directions that you don't expect, at times becoming philosphical, comic, profound, sad, exciting, scary, and disturbing. Things build to a confrontation between Miracleman and his young protege that's one of the most powerful sequences I've read.

Then "Swamp Thing" led me to check out the Constantine character in "Hellblazer". Early HB is solid, if a bit hit and miss. Fans of "Preacher" would likely enjoy Ennis's run, which is probably the highlight of the series. Nowhere near as nasty as Preacher, Ennis does bring an edge and emotional charge to the series. I haven't really kept up with the book that much since Ennis left.

Another series I was into at the time was "Shade, the Changing Man". Really wacked-out, sci-fi horror psychedelic. The first 50 issues were really good, but it literally fell off the quality cliff after issue 50 and was cancelled not long afterward.

And I got into Grant Morrison, especially "The Invisibles" and "Doom Patrol". "Invisibles" is hard to describe, but if you like the first couple of story arcs you're in for a great ride. "Doom Patrol" is my favorite from him. It's kind of a funny story with the book -- DP was this long-time superhero team that always had a bit of a fringe cult success. Comparisons to X-Men are inevitable, with a wheelchair-bound leader and a group of misfits who bickered and seemed to garner the distrust of the general public rather than praise (though DP actually came first). In the early 80s the latest incarnation of DP was floundering -- it was a standard superhero team book, and not a good one at that. Then Morrison took over, and shook the hell out of it. Most of the team was killed outright, with the surviving "Robotman" in a mental institution. The storylines took a quantum leap in sophistication, and Morrison's run on DP was one of my favorite in comics. The change in the book was so dramatic -- imagine going from Adam West "Batman" to "Batman Begins" in a month. Post-Morrison DP was a disaster (Morrison ended his run so perfectly, it was the perfect way to close the book on those characters) and it was cancelled soon afterward.

I read "Books of Magic" too (which Gaiman started off). Fairly inoffensive for the Vertigo line, but decent fantasy storytelling. And yes, the kid does seem a lot like Harry Potter (who came well afterward), though there's no school and the tone is more serious.

I fell out from comics for a few years then -- everything in Vertigo started to seem the same (lots trying to cash in with the goth/literary crowd attracted by Sandman). But I have recently gotten back into some things, including some (*gasp*) Marvel. And Vertigo seems to have found its footing again, offering up a varied selection of high quality series. I've been reading "Fables", "Y", and "100 Bullets". 3 very different genres, but all featuring the same level of storytelling and artistry. I like that these series aren't intended to go forever either -- they're all built for about 75 issues or so, and you don't feel like you're going to get ripped off my never resolving things. Morrison got me to try "Justice League" -- its toned down Morrison, but still good superhero stories (I especially liked the Darkseid story -- he's one scary mo-fo). I just don't like how I'd feel lost when they keep referring to things that happened in each characters own series (like why the hell Superman turned into a blue energy being for several issues), and the fact they seemed to always be pushing to get rid of the established superheroes for new guys. That's what I thought the point of JL was: 1 book where you get the big guns like Supes, WW, Flash, GL, Bats. When it starts starring some new Indian shaman, some new flying strong woman, and Plastic Man is when I stop caring.

I actually tried some the Marvel "Ultimate" line -- like Spider-man (which has been fun fast-reading). And I picked up Bruce Jones run on Hulk when I saw it for a package sale. Which I was iffy on ... Hulk just seems to have limitations in the character concept that make it hard for an ongoing series, at least where he's the focus. At least that's the impression Jones gives, and it seems like he'd rather be writing an action/thriller starring Doc Sampson and superspy Betty Ross (don't ask) with occasional guest appearances by Hulk. One thing that kind of annoys me with the Marvel books is how needlessly drawn out they are. What happens in an entire trade could easily be covered in an issue (2 at the most). The drawing is good, but so much of it feels like "fluff" -- when I read through a trade in 50 minutes, I'm left wondering if I got my money's worth.
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conundrum
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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brainee wrote:
One thing that kind of annoys me with the Marvel books is how needlessly drawn out they are. What happens in an entire trade could easily be covered in an issue (2 at the most). The drawing is good, but so much of it feels like "fluff" -- when I read through a trade in 50 minutes, I'm left wondering if I got my money's worth.


Having recently gotten into Manga, I have learned to appreciate the breakneck pace of Marvel books.
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lostphrack
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:42 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 86
Location: New England

Atomic_Ilk wrote:
I just finished my last Preacher book. FUCKING AMAZING!

Now I'm thinking about moving onto either 100 Bullets, Sandman, or Y.

Anyone care to make a recommendation?

Sandman. Probably one of my favorite comic series of all time. Great fantasy/horror stuff as others have said. The only comic to have won a World Fantasy Award, yadda yadda. Good stuff.

100 Bullets is also fantastic though. Kind of neo-noir conspiracy thriller. It's one of my favorite series at the moment though I only read in TPB form.
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The Buz
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:49 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 3590
Location: Cow Palace.

Well..what exactly is Sandman and 100 bullets about? I really don't know anything about the two other than them being extremely talked about.
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