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Forums Index -> Out of Genre Experience -> Christopher Nolan's new film, Inception.
Floydian Trip
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 6478

Some of the best science-fiction is grounded in reality. I love Asimov as well and also Arthur C Clarke. Read or watch 2001, it was prophetic. Or watch Contact written by Hawking. 2001 and Contact are regarded by scientists as the most scientifically accurate sci-fi films ever made. Hell, even elements of Star Trek are based on physics theory. That being said I also enjoy Logan's Run and Terminator. I'm just a big sci-fi geek of all kinds.
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Legba
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 1567

Another thing I wanted to get to, but for whatever reason forgot. Was how the film uses a Matrix style virtual reality as the basis for dream manipulation. Taken on its own, I can buy into the rules of a 'conscious' virtual world within an elaborate computer network. We've seen the genesis of these types of concepts already with interactive video games (explored in existenz). But when you're talking about now influencing the 'unconscious' mind in a dream state? The whole notion becomes null and void. The way I see it you either fall into the camp that believes dreams to be beneficial, having symbolic significance, or that they're just random images that have no further meaning (if you fall into this one I urge you to read Man and His Symbols). But even if you see the possibility of dream manipulation, when they stop being pure expressions of the unconscious they cease to be dreams at all. Which by definition would render the term meaningless within the context. It just becomes another conscious, mind control device, not unlike hundreds of other Sci-fi cliches. And yes, I prefer Animatrix (the best thing from the franchise) over Inception.
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Floydian Trip
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
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I think you're reading too much into the movie Legba. But then a lot of people are. As far as dreams go I have the most incredibly vivid dreams and when they're bad they're far worse than ANY horror film I have ever seen. I sometimes wake up with tears streaming down my face. Of course they mean something. They are a product of the sub-conscious so to dismiss them as meanigless would be to say that you don't have any thoughts or feeling embedded any deeper than thinking about eating food or watching that movie. Nobody can think like that. WHen you've been around long enough you have many past experiences that you may not even remember but may have effected you deeply which is how people evolve. I don't know why I dream some of the things I do but I have some fears that are buried so deep I'm not consciously aware of them. Sitting here now I can honestly say that I'm not afraid of anything but I know that's not true. I don't think that's true of anybody. So the whole argument seems pointless but at the end of the Inception is just an excellent action movie with stellar performances from the entire cast and some great dialogue. I don't think Nolan was thinking of people writing books and philosophies on the movie like they've done for The Matrix.
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Legba
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jul 2006
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I like fuckin' with y'all, Trip!
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LivingDeadPunk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 5679
Location: Cleveland, OH

Legba wrote:
LSD Zombie wrote:
Legba wrote:
Hell, I did think this movie made some fairly pretentious speculation into dream nature and theory. Siding to just disregard the last century of pioneering field analysis for a clever plot device, adding nothing of any relative substance. That's by definition what pretentious (which gets misused all the time when someone can't address, or chooses not to, a film subtextually) is.


It's a freakin' science-fiction film dude. And a damn creative one at that.


I realize that. That's why I prefaced my initial comment by saying I didn't buy into the film's 'speculation' at all. I also went on to write if you wanted to take the film as a objective fantasy (or escapism), then I thought it was fairly successful. Of course painting such broad strokes as sayin' it's Science Fiction, and that in and of itself is rational for its defense is a pretty absurd notion. In that case any film 'works' within the confines of its genre. My favorite Science Fiction writer is Isaac Asimov, one of the all-time great thinkers. Within the confines of his beloved genre his ideas had an evolutionary development based on concepts that you could tell he had a real understanding of the ideas he was introducing and dealing, in order to envision the possibilities. No doubt he didn't use the genre as a free pass to wildly throw conjecture without it being subject to critical scrutiny (he was versed in literary criticism as well). If you're talking about Science Fiction as another form of 'pulp', the film was entertaining enough. But the film doesn't allow itself to be taken solely on that level.

Speaking to Floydian Trip's question as far as the study of dreams go. I'm a Jungian student for the most part, although Freud's ideas are certainly of interest. His concept of the collective unconscious as well as being the most revolutionary and imaginative, also offers practical exploration in the field. Based on actual historical and cultural data, real field research, as well as tying together folklore and myth into symbolic importance. The more nurtured the more discovered. I'm in agreement that dreaming is a primordial state, free from artificial artifice.

At the end of the day sure, Inception is just fiction. But if you're going to address 'real' ideas, at least have a better understanding of their characteristics. Or better yet, just because you're dealing in a fictitious medium, doesn't mean a work can't have some semblance of truth. I think Nolan runs into this problem quite a bit in his work. Deciding for ambitious style and clever (tricky) plotting, while obtusely blurring the lack of any real vision (Memento, The Prestige, Inception). I think his best film is The Dark Knight - an accomplished deconstruction of the hero myth.

Hope that helps shed some light on my perspective. You guys gleaned more fulfillment from it than me, and I certainly respect that.


If you're wondering how Joel eats and breathes and other science facts, just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
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LivingDeadPunk
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Location: Cleveland, OH

Suspense building is kind of a lost art in movies nowadays, so the thing that I loved best about Inception was Nolan's layering of multiple action sequences atop each other, with no resolution, over and over as a way of steadily increasing the tension all throughout the last 2/3rds (3/4ths?) of the movie. By the end I was an overtuned guitar string, ready to snap, wishing I could look around the edge of the screen to try to glimpse Watanabe and see how it all turned out.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 4360
Location: NYC baby!

Floydian Trip wrote:
I sometimes wake up with tears streaming down my face.


Too easy....

Inception was a GOOD movie but not a great one. I didn't feel an ounce of chemistry between Leo and Cotillard. Which there should have been copious amounts of considering they are the emotional anchor for the film. Also, a lot of neat potential for the dreams at the end was wasted.

The best parts of this movie were Gordon-Levit and the rotating hallway fight scene. Cross cutting climax was also incredibly well done and Zimmer's score was fantastic. I feel that a lot of this movie's hype is reminiscent of that of the Matrix's 11 years prior. Mainstream audiences haven't seen anything like this at the time so extra praise gets heaped on it. Like I said, I liked the movie a lot, I just don't think it's the masterpiece people are touting it to be. Nolan's two best films are still Memento and The Dark Knight.

8/10
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Floydian Trip
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:28 pm  Reply with quote



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Too easy for you maybe because you probably don't understand what it feels like to have children and how when you do the greatest fear you will have is of something horrible happening to them. Every parent I know has nightmares like that.
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Didn't See It Coming
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Location: NYC baby!

Floydian Trip wrote:
Too easy for you maybe because you probably don't understand what it feels like to have children and how when you do the greatest fear you will have is of something horrible happening to them.


Too easy again.
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Lantern Man
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 216
Location: an hour south of Tampa... just follow the "old man" smell.

I finally saw it this weekend. I really liked it. Though at times I got a little lost, I was able to just let it wash over me until it made sense again.

When it was over, I felt like I was the one waking up from a dream.
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